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Documented Salafi Fallacies in Creed

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[  all the following courtesy of the good people at http://marifah.net/forums/  ]

INDEX TO INFORMATION REGARDING SOME OF THE ATTRIBUTES OF A PSEUDO-SALAFI’S GOD:

1) Salafis believe that ‘declaring  Allah transcendent beyond possessing body (al-jism), pupils  (al-hadaqa), auditory meatus (al-simâkh), tongue (al-lisân), and larynx  (al-hanjara) … is not the position of Ahl al-Sunna but rather that of  the scholars of condemned kalâm and their contrivance’

2) Salafis believe in a God surrounding the universe.

3) Salafis believe in a God who has a shadow

4) Salafis believe in a God who jogs.

5) Salafis believe in a God who is sitting

6) Salafis believe in a God who has a limit.

7) Salafis believe in a God who has a form

8) Salafis believe in a God located in a direction.

9) Salafis believe in a God who has a waist.  

10) Salafis believe in a God who gets bored.

11) Salafis believe in a God who hesitates.

12) Salafis believe in a God who is ‘settled’ on a throne.

13) Salafis believe in a God who is silent.

14) Salafis believe in a God who moves.

15) Salafis believe in a God who does smelling

16) Salafis believe in a God who is harmed.

17) Salafis believe in a God with five fingers.

[This is not a final version and will be edited in the future. Corrections are welcome. More links later, insha’Allah]

    #2faqir

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    Posted 07 August 2011 – 10:50 PM

    Pseudo Salafis object to Muslims declaring Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala transcendent beyond possessing body, parts and limbs:

    Pseudo-Salafi ‘shaykh’ Ibn Baz said:
    Quote

    أهل السنة لا ينفون عن الله إلا ما نفاه عن نفسه
    9- ثم ذكر الصابوني – هداه الله – تنزيه الله سبحانه عن الجسم والحدقة والصماخ
    واللسان والحنجرة ، وهذا ليس بمذهب أهل السنة بل هو من أقوال أهل الكلام
    المذموم وتكلفهم ، فإن أهل السنة لا ينفون عن الله إلا ما نفاه عن نفسه أو
    نفاه رسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم ولا يثبتون له إلا ما أثبته لنفسه أو أثبته له
    رسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم ولم يرد في النصوص نفي هذه الأمور ولا إثباتها
    فالواجب الكف عنها وعدم التعرض لها لا بنفي ولا إثبات ، ويغني عن ذلك قول
    أهل السنة في إثبات صفات الله وأسمائه أنه لا يشابه فيها خلقه وأنه سبحانه لا
    ند له ولا كفو له. قال الإمام أحمد رحمه الله: (لا يوصف الله إلا بما وصف به نفسه
    أو وصفه به رسوله صلى الله عليه وسلم لا يتجاوز القرآن والحديث).
    Source

    Translation:

    9_ Then As-Sabuni �May Allah guide him- mentioned declaring Allah transcendent beyond possessing body (al-jism), pupils (al-hadaqa), auditory meatus (al-sim�kh), tongue (al-lis�n), and larynx (al-hanjara); [End of Sabuni’s words- beginning of Ibn Baz’s words] and this is not the position of Ahl al-Sunna but rather that of the scholars of condemned kal�m and their contrivance , for Ahl As-sunnah do not negate something about Allah except what He negates about Hisself or what his Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم negated, and they do not affirm for Him (Allah) except what He affirmed for Hisself or what the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم affirmed for Him, and it was not mentioned in the nusoos (the Quran and Sunnah) negation of these things (that As-Sabuni mentioned) or its affirmation; so it is obligatory to stop there and not to confront it with neither negation or affirmation, and what Ahl As-sunnah said suffices in the affirmation of Allah’s attributes and names that He does resemble in it his creation, and that He (glorified be He) has no match. Imam Ahmad [rahimahu Allah] said: “Allah is not to be described except with what He described Himself with or what His Messenger described Him with, it does not exceed the Quran and Hadith”.

    …………

    Similarly the Wahhabi editor of “I’itiqad A’immat Al-Hadith”, a book attributed to Al-Hafidh Abu Bakr Al-Isma’ili (d. 371 H.) objected to the following statement:

    ولا يعتقد فيه الأعضاء، والجوارح، ولا الطول والعرض، والغلظ، والدقة، ونحو هذا مما يكون مثله في الخلق، وأنه ليس كمثله شيء تبارك وجه ربنا ذو الجلال والإكرام.
    “We do not believe that He (Allah swt) is composed of parts or limbs, nor do we believe that He is attributed with length or width..”
    In his explanatory footnote the editor said, as translated Here and posted on the ‘Salafi’ Multaqa Ahl al-Hadeeth forums here:

    Quote

    These terms are not from among the known terms to Ahlus-Sunnah wal- Jamaa`ah from among the Salaf (pious predecessors) of this nation, rather, it is from the innovated terms of the heretics, and expressing the truth with the Islaamic terms is the path of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa`ah. So it is not needed for the seeker of the truth to pay attention to these types of terms and reliance upon them, and the Imaam, may Allaah have mercy upon him, the author, was not free from using these words. Indeed Allaah (), is attributed with the complete attributes and is described with the exalted descriptions. So regardless of the matter, the falsehood is rejected from the one who says it, regardless of whom it may be.

    Note: In the introduction to the translation the editor of this text is mentioned to be the contemporary Pseudo-Salafi theologian ‘Shaykh’ Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Rahm�n Al-Khumayyis. And Allah knows best.

      #3faqir

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      Posted 07 August 2011 – 10:52 PM

      Salafis say Allah is Surrounding the World

      Says the Pseudo-Salafi ‘Shaykh’ al-Albani:

      Quote

      قال في تعليقه على صحيح الترغيب والترهيب ( 1 / 116 ) من طبعة المكتب الإسلامي الثانية 1406 هـ* ما نصه :

      فائدة هامة : اعلم أن قوله في هذا الحديث : فإن الله قبل وجهه .

      وفي الحديث الذي قبله فإن الله عز وجل بين أيديكم في صلاتكم لا ينافي كونه تعالى على عرشه ، فوق مخلوقاته كلها كما تواترت فيه نصوص الكتاب والسنة ، وآثار الصحابة والسلف الصالح رضي الله عنهم ، ورزقنا الاقتداء بهم ، فإنه تعالى مع ذلك واسع محيط بالعالم وقد أخبر أنه حيثما توجه العبد فإنه مستقبل وجه الله عزوجل ، بل هذا شأن مخلوقه المحيط بما دونه ، فإن كل خط يخرج من المركز إلى المحيط ، فإنه يستقبل وجه المحيط ويواجهه .

      وإذا كان عالي المخلوقات يستقبل سافلها المحاط بها بوجهه من جميع الجهات والجوانب ، فكيف بشأن من هو بكل شئ محيط ، وهو محيط ولا يحاط به ؟ وراجع بسط هذا في كتب شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية كالحموية والواسطية وشرحها للشيخ = ( * ) زيد بن عبد العزيز بن فياض ( ص 203 – 213 )

      rough translation:

      He said in his footnotes on Sahih at-Targhib wat-tarhib, from the 1406 Hijri edition of al-Maktab al-Islami ath-thani, and I quote,

      ‘Important (point of) benefit: know that his statement in this hadith, ‘Allah is in front of his face,’ and in the previous hadith, ‘Allah Azza wa jalla is in front of you during your Salat,’ does not negate His being on/above the throne (and) above all of his creations, as the text of the Qur’an and the Sunnah, and the reports of the Companions and Pious Predecessors report by tawatur (may Allah be pleased with them and may He grant that we follow them). Despite that, Allah is expansive and encompasses the world, and has informed us that wherever the slave faces, he is facing the Face of Allah (azza wa jalla). In fact, this is even the state of that of His creation which surrounds something other than itself as all lines that come from the center towards what it is surrounded by face the surrounding object. So if a creation high up faces what it is lower than and is surrounded by, with its surface, from all directions and sides, then what about the One that surrounds everything, and He is surrounding and not surrounded?

      See the detail of this in books of Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah and like Al-Hamawiyah and al-Wasitiyah and its sharh by Shaykh Zayd Bin Abdul Aziz Bin Fayyad (p. 203 – 213)

      This is something similar to what was mentioned by the pseudo-Salafi theologian ‘Shaykh’ Haitham Hamdan who is an administrator of the Multaqa Ahl al-Hadeeth forums:

      Quote

      1) Allah SWT could be either inside the world or outside the world … It is a matter of agreement among main stream Muslims that He is outside the world. Being inside the world means that He SWT mixes with impurities, an aspect of imperfection.

      2) The universe is round (sperical).

      3) Relative to itself, a sperical shape can only have two directions: a top and a bottom.

      4) For a sperical shape, bottom is towards its center, above is away from its center.

      5) Allah SWT is certainly away from the center of the world, so He is certainly above it.

      …and a diagram of Um Abdullah / NMS / Musleemah also posted on the same Ahl al-Hadeeth forum:

      Posted Image

        #4faqir

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        Posted 07 August 2011 – 10:53 PM

        Pseudo Salafis say Allah has a Shadow

        Says Pseudo-salafi ‘Shaykh’ Ibn Baz:

        Quote

        http://www.binbaz.org.sa/mat/4234

        مسألة في الصفات
        في حديث السبعة الذين يظلهم الله في ظله يوم لا ظل إلا ظله، فهل يوصف الله تعالى بأن له ظلاً؟

        نعم كما جاء في الحديث، وفي بعض الروايات: ((في ظل عرشه))[1] لكن الصحيحين ((في ظله))، فهو له ظل يليق به سبحانه لا نعلم كيفيته مثل سائر الصفات، الباب واحد عند أهل السنة والجماعة. والله ولي التوفيق.

        ——————————————————————————–

        [1] أخرجه البخاري في كتاب الأذان، باب من جلس في المسجد ينتظر الصلاة، برقم 660، ومسلم في كتاب الزكاة، باب فضل إخفاء الصدقة، برقم 1031.

        مجموع فتاوى ومقالات متنوعة المجلد الثامن والعشرون

        Rough Translation:

        Issue relating to the Attributes [of Allah]:

        In the hadith of the seven of those who will be shaded by Allah in His shadow on the day that there is no shadow save His shadow, is this attributing Allah the Exalted with a shadow?

        Answer:

        Yes, as is reported in the Hadith and in some transmissions : “in the shadow of His throne”.  But, in the Sahihayn it is : “in His shadow” for He has a shadow that is befitting to Him, the Glorious,  and we do not know its modality (Kayf) just like the rest of His attributes…

        Useful Anecdote:

        Unlike ‘shaykh’ Ibn Baz, one of his own major colleagues from the Salafi theologians negates this so-called Attribute he affirms for Allah! The notorious Rabi’ Ibn Hadi al-Madkhalee says that the shadow is the shade of the ‘Arsh. Similarly, Salafi shaykh Al-Uthaimeen says that the understanding of those who think that shadow is a sifa is stupider than that of a donkey!

        Posted Image

          #5faqir

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          Posted 07 August 2011 – 10:54 PM

          Salafis say Allah performs Jogging / Trotting

          In Fatawa al-Aqida Pseudo-Salafi ‘shaykh’ Muhammad b. Salih b. Uthaimin, page 112, is quoted saying:

          Quote

          وأي مانع يمنع من أن نؤمن بأن الله تعالى يأتي هرولة

          “What could forbid us from believing that Allah performs jogging/trotting [harwala]?”

          And this is from the Lajnatud-Da’imah lil-Buhuthul `Ilmiyyah wal-Ifta / The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Fatawa (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia):

          Quote

          فتاوى اللجنة الدائمة للبحوث العلمية والإفتاء ج3ص196 :
          ( س : هل لله صفة الهرولة ؟
          ج : نعم ، على نحو ما جاء في الحديث القدسي الشريف على ما يليق به قال تعالى : إذا تقرب إليّ العبد شبرا تقربت إليه ذراعا وإذا تقرب إليّ ذراعا تقربت منه باعاً وإذا أتاني ماشياً أتيته هرولة . رواه البخاري وسلم ).

          Rough Translation:

          Q: Is Jogging (Harwala) an attribute of Allah?

          A: Yes, as it has been shown in the Hadith Qudsi al-Shareef ….. “… and if he comes to Me walking, I go to him running.” Narrated by al-Bukhari and Muslim.

          Posted Image Posted Image

          Link to KSA Website

          Useful Anecdote:

          The pseudo salafi theologian Salih b. Fawzan al-Fawzan (rightly) negates what the Lajna’ say is an ‘attribute’ of Allah:

            الهرولة ليست بصفة لله) العلامة صالح بن فوزان الفوزان -حفظه الله) –

            #6faqir

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            Posted 07 August 2011 – 10:56 PM

            Salafis say al-Istawa’ is Julus – Allah is Sitting

            Says Pseudo Salafi ‘Shaykh’ al-Uthaimeen in Majmu Fatawa (vol. 1, no. 57) quoting Ibn al-Qayyim [provided by sh. Abul Hasan]:

            Quote

            وأما تفسيره بالجلوس فقد نقل ابن القيم في الصواعق 4/1303 عن خارجة بن مصعب في قوله تعالى :  )الرحمن على العرش استوى((1) قوله: “وهل يكون الاستواء إلا الجلوس”. ا.هـ. وقد ورد ذكر الجلوس في حديث أخرجه الإمام أحمد عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما مرفوعاً. والله أعلم

            .

            source
            rough translation:

            with respect to the sitting, Ibn al-Qayyim has reported in As-Sawaaiq 1303/4 from Kharijah bin Mus’ab with respect to the saying of Allah the Exalted :The ayah: Ar-Rahmanu Alal Arshi Istawa, “How can the ascension be anything other than sitting?” and the mention of sitting has been reported in the Hadeeth from Imam Ahmad from Ibn Abbas, may Allah be pleased with them both, in a Marfu’ fashion. And Allah Knows best

            And, to quote sh. Abul Hasan:

            Posted Image

            Ibn al-Qayyim is talking about a non-existent narration in the Musnad of Ahmad [i.e. he has fabricated] through Kharija who is actually matruk in hadith anyway!

            Similar statements are found in the book Kitab al-sunna attributed to `Abd Allah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal (d. 290) by the pseudo-salafis, but whose stand in relation to the Sunna and anthropomorphism can be judged by the following excerpt:

            10 حدثني أحمد بن سعيد أبو جعفر الدارمي قال سمعتُ أبي يقول سمعت خارجة يقول الجهمية كفار بلغوا نساءهم أنهن طوالق وأنهن لا يحللن لازواجهن لا تعودوا مرضاهم ولا تشهدوا جنائزهم ثم تلا : ﴿طه * مَا أَنزَلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْقُرْآنَ لِتَشْقَى * إِلاَّ تَذْكِرَةً لِّمَن يَخْشَى * تَنزِيلاً مِّمَّنْ خَلَقَ الأَرْضَ وَالسَّمَاوَاتِ الْعُلَى * الرَّحْمَنُ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ اسْتَوَى﴾ ، وهل يكون الاستواء الا بجلوس.

            Quote

            “Is istiwa other than by sitting (julus)?”
            page 5, Kitab al-sunna (Cairo: al-Matba`a al-Salafiya, 1349/1930).

            In the book Qudum Kataib al-Jihad li Ghazwi Ahl al-Zindiqah wa al-Ilhad, the pseudo-salafi ‘shaykh’ Abdul ‘Aziz al-Rajihi says after quoting Kitab al-Sunna:

            Posted ImagePosted Image

            [rough translation of excerpt from above]

            Quote

            “These words are correct undoubtedly. Yes; is istiwa anything other than sitting? This is one of the meanings of the word istiwa . . . . So the verse, “The All-Merciful rose over the Throne” means ascended and sat; however, it is in a way that befits His majesty. . .

            Source (p. 101)

            The contemporary salafi preacher Dr. Aidh al-Qarni also describes Allah as ‘sitting’ on His throne as can be seen in a recording of one of his khutbas. [edit: video now removed]

            And finally, in his Tafsir named “an-Nahrul-Madd”, the Grammarian Abu Hayyan al-‘Andalusi reported about Ibn Taymiyah:

            Quote

            In his handwriting, a book of Ahmad Ibn Taymiyah, who was contemporary with us, which he called “Kitab-ul-‘Arsh”, I read: Allah sits on al-Kursi and has left a space for the Messenger of Allah to sit with Him….

            (see scan)

              #7faqir

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              Posted 07 August 2011 – 11:03 PM

              Pseudo Salafis say Allah has a Limit

              Says ‘shaykh’ Ibn Baz on his ‘commentary’ on al-`Aqida al-Tahawiyya:

              Quote

              فمراده بالحدود يعني التي يعلمها البشر، فهو سبحانه لا يعلم حدوده إلا هو سبحانه

              By hudood (limits) the author means such as known by humans since no one except Allah Almighty knows his limits. 

              see footnote 3: External Link

              Similarly, one of their predecessors in such a belief, Abu Sa’id ad-Darimi, the author of al-Radd ala Bishr al-Marisi, said, as quoted by Sh. Ibn Taymiyah in Dar’ at-Ta’arud without rebuke (2/28-29):

              Quote

              The section on the Hadd (limit) and the ‘Arsh

              Abu Sa’id said:

              The opponent also claimed that Allah does not possess a Hadd (limit), Ghayah (restriction), or Nihayah (end). He said: And this is the basis upon which Jahm (ibn Safwan) built his misguidnace and derived all of his errors. It has not reached us that anyone besides Jahm in the world proceeded him with it. Someone who was discussing this with him (Jahm) said to him: I have come to know your intent oh non-Arab. You intend that Allah is nothing, because all of the creation have known that there is nothing that is called a “thing” except that it has a Hadd (limit), a Ghayah (restriction) and an attribute, and that what has no limit, restriction or attribute is nothingness.

              So that which is a “thing” must necessarily be described with attributes. Nothingness is described with no limit or restriction. Your statement: He has no limit means that He is nothing.

              Abu Sa’id said:

              Allah Ta’ala has a limit that no one knows but Him and it is not allowed for anyone to imagine a limit to His limit in himself, however, he is to beleive in the limit and relegate the knolwedge of that to Allah. His place (Makan) also has a limit and He is upon His ‘Arsh above the seven heavens- so these are two limits.

              Sh. Ibn Taymiyya goes further himself even referring to Allah’s place when he said as quoted in Muwaafaqat al-Manqul (2:29) (republished as Dar’ Ta’aarud al-`Aqli wal-Naql (2:58-59):
              Quote

              There is agreement one and all among the Muslims and the disbelievers [sic] that Allah Most High is in the heaven and they ascribed it to Him as a limit except al-Marrisi the misguided and his friends.  Even little boys that have not reached puberty know this: when a boy is sad he raises his hand to his Lord and calls unto Him in the Heaven and nowhere else.  Everybody knows of Allah and His place (makanih) better than the Jahmiyyah! [..]. All this and its like are corroborations and proofs for a limit, and whoever does not admit it has committed disbelief in the Divine Revelation and has denied the verses of Allah!

                #8faqir

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                Posted 07 August 2011 – 11:04 PM

                Pseudo Salafis say Allah has a Form / Image 

                Abd Allah al-Hashidi the “Salafi” editor of al-Bayhaqi’s al-Asma’ wal-Sifat (2:60) openly attributes form and shape to Allah Most High:

                Quote

                “As for our Lord, we affirm that He possesses a form (sura)”

                and (2:67)
                Quote

                “As for us we affirm a form (sura) for Allah unlike forms.”

                Similarly, the Egyptian ‘Salafi’ scholar Mohammed Khalil Harras……

                هو العلاَّمة، السلفيُّ، المحقِّق، محمد خليل هرَّاس
                كان رحمه الله سلفي المعتقد، شديدًا في الحقّ، قويّ الحجّة والبيان، أفنى حياته في التعليم والتأليف ونشر السنة وعقيدة أهل السنة والجماعة
                ….who salafis describe as:

                “He was Salafi in creed, stern in establishing the truth, persuasive in establishing his proof, he spent his life teaching, authoring, and spreading the creed of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’a”

                says on p. 39 of his commentary on “At-Tawhid” by Ibn Khuzayma:
                Quote

                فالصورة لا تضاف إلى الله كإضافة خلقه إليه لأنها وصف قائم به

                “So ‘Image / form’ is not attributed to Allah the way his creation is attributed to Him, because it (His image / form), is an attribute which subsists in His essence”

                and on pg. 156:

                Quote

                ثم تبدى الله لنا بصورة غير صورته التي رأيناه فيها أول مرة ، وقد عاد لنا في صورته التي رأيناه فيها أول مرة فيقول أنا ربكم

                “Then he appeared to us with an image/form which is different then what we have previously seen, and He returned to us in the image/form we first saw him in and says: ‘I am your Lord’ “

                According to the pseudo-Salafi fatwa site ‘Islam Question & Answer’ run by Muhammad S. Al-Munajjid:

                Quote

                The Prophet’s words, “Adam was created in His image” means that Allaah created Adam in His image, for He has a face, an eye, a hand, and a foot, and Adam had a face, an eye, a hand, and a foot… but that does not mean that these things are exactly the same. There is some similarity, but it is not exactly the same. Similarly the first group to enter Paradise are likened to the moon, but they are not exactly the same. This confirms the view of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, who say that none of the attributes of Allaah can be likened to the attributes of created beings, without distorting or misinterpreting, or discussing how or likening Him to His creation.
                See Sharh al-‘Aqeedah al-Waasitah by Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 1/107, 293.

                Link to answer on Islam-qa

                Useful anecdote:

                Salafi theologian Sulaiman al-Alwan is quoted on the Ahl al-Hadeeth forum calling out the pseudo salafis’ own major reference in `Aqida Ibn Khuzayma, author of the book Kitab al-Tawhid (which was renamed Kitab al-Shirk by Fakhr al-Razi), for his supposed negation of ‘image / form‘ as an attribute of God stating:

                Quote

                وأما تأويل ابن خزيمة-رحمه الله تعالى- لحديث ((خلق الله آدم على صورته)) فإنه خلاف الحق ، وهو معدود من أخطائه، والله يعفو عنه ، ولا يجوز لنا التشبث بأخطاء العلماء وزلاتهم ، فإن تتبع زلات العلماء من هوادم الإسلام

                rough translation:

                As for Ibn Khuzayma’s interpretation (taw’il) of the hadith, ‘Allah created Adam upon his image,’ it stands contrary to the truth, and is to be counted among his errors, may Allah pardon him. It is not permissible for us to adhere to the errors and slips of the scholars, for following the slips of scholars is one of the things that tears down the edifice of Islam.

                  #9faqir

                  • Marifah
                  • 3,334 posts
                  • Location:englaaaand

                  Posted 07 August 2011 – 11:05 PM

                  Quote

                  Salafis say Allah has a Limit

                  Says ‘shaykh’ Ibn Baz on his ‘commentary’ on al-`Aqida al-Tahawiyya:

                  Salafis say Allah is Located in a Direction

                  In the same source and footnote cited above of ‘shaykh’ Ibn Baz on his ‘commentary’ on al-`Aqida al-Tahawiyya we find:

                  Quote

                  All the evidence from the Book and the authentic Mutawatir Sunnah prove that He is in the direction above us. Dear reader, be alert to this point which is the sole truth and anything else is falsehood.

                  Similar statements are found on his website such as the following:

                  Quote

                  فالله سبحانه في العلو في جهة العلو فوق جميع الخلق

                  “…He is High, in the direction of upwards, over the creation”.

                  Useful Anecdote:

                  Regarding the statement of Imam al-Tahawi:

                  Quote

                  – 38
                  وتعالى ( 5 ) عن الحدود والغايات والأركان والأعضاء والأدوات لا تحويه الجهات الست كسائر المبتدعات (6

                  He is beyond having limits placed on Him, or being restricted, or having parts or limbs. Nor is He contained by the six directions as all created things are.”  

                  The pseudo-salafi ‘shaykh’ محمد بن مانع /  Muhammad ibn Mani’ states as quoted in this commentary on al-`Aqida al-Tahawiyya, Sharh wa Ta`liq – fn 6:
                  العقيدة الطحاوية
                  للطحاوي
                  شرح وتعليق
                  محمد ناصر الدين الألباني
                  ط 2 – 1414 ه
                  المكتب الإسلامي – بيروت

                  Quote

                  وما كان أغنى الإمام المصنف عن مثل هذه الكلمات المجملة الموهمة المخترعة ولو قيل إنها مدسوسة عليه وليست من كلامه لم يكن ذلك عندي ببعيد إحسانا للظن بهذا الإمام

                  Rough translation:

                  The Imam and author was in no need at all of using such general, ambiguous, newly-invented words. If it were said that this passage was forged against him I would not consider it improbable so as to keep a good opinion of this Imam.

                  Similarly, Salafi preacher Ibn Jibrin says:
                  Quote

                  وذكر فيها بعض العبارات المنكرة التي اشتهرت في زمانه عن المتكلمين، مثل قوله: إن الله مُنَزَّه عن الحدود والغايات، والأبعاض، والأعراض، لا تحويه الجهات الست كسائر المبتدعات .

                  Al-Ţaĥawi mentioned in it some denounced statements that were widespread in his time through the scholars of kalam, such as his statement: “Verily Allah is clear of having limits, extremes, corners, limbs or instruments. The six directions do not contain Him (un)like all created things.

                  source

                    #10faqir

                    • Marifah
                    • 3,334 posts
                    • Location:englaaaand

                    Posted 07 August 2011 – 11:06 PM

                    Salafis Say Allah has a Waist [Haqwu]

                    A well known senior Salafi shaykh named Abdullah bin Aqeel says in his book “Tanbihat ala al-Akhta’a Al-‘aqadiyyah fi Fath Al-Bari” (Warnings about the Mistakes in Aqidah mentioned in Fath Al-Bari), 1/31, as a refutation of Al-Hafidh Ibn Hajar who made ta’wil of haqw the following:

                    Quote

                    لا حول ولا قوة إلا بالله!الواجب الإيمان بما دل عليه الحديث وإمراره كما جاء على حقيقته كباقي نصوص الصفات، والإيمان بمقتضى الحديث أن لله حقواً، كما أن له سمعاً ووجهاً وقدماً، كل ذلك على الحقيقة اللائقة بالله عز وجل من غير تحريف ولا تمثيل ولا تكييف ولا تعطيل.
                    أما تنزيه الله عن الجارحة فكلام مجمل لم يصح نفيه عن الله ولا عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، وعليه فلا يجوز نفيه ولا إثباته حتى يُستفصل عن مراد قائله، لأنه يحوي حقاً وباطلاً.
                    وتكلُّف كونه مجازاً واستعارة مما يفضي إلى التعطيل ونفي الصفات الثابتة لله عز وجل. والواجب إثبات الصفات لله على الوجه اللائق بالله من غير تكييف ولا تمثيل، ومن غير تحريف ولا تعطيل، كما هو قول أهل السنة والجماعة، والله ولي التوفيق.

                    Rough translation excerpted from above:

                    “What is obligatory is to believe in that which is indicated in the hadith and to pass it it along as it has come in its literal sense, as is the case for the other texts that pertain to the divine attributes, and to believe in the implication of this hadith, which is that Allah has a waist. . . .”

                    The author also objects to declaring Allah trancendent above having limbs saying:

                    “As for declaring Allah transcendent above limbs, such words are ambiguous and there are no sound texts from Allah or His Messenger (salla Allah ‘alaihi wa sallam) negating it, so on that basis it is not permissible to negate it or affirm it.”

                    The book that this qoute was taken from, was reviewed, edited and checked by some senior Salafi scholars like Abdul Aziz bin Salih Al-Fawzan andAbdullah Ghunayman.

                      #11faqir

                      • Marifah
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                      • Location:englaaaand

                      Posted 07 August 2011 – 11:07 PM

                      Salafis Say Allah is Attributed With Boredom 

                      Pseudo salafi theologian ‘shaykh’ al-`Uthaymin says:

                      وهذا الملل الذي يفهم من ظاهر الحديث أن الله يتصف به ، ليس كمللنا نحن ، لأن مللنا نحن ملل تعب وكسل ، وأما ملل الله عز وجل فإنه صفة يختص به جل وعلا ، والله سبحانه وتعالى لا يلحقه تعب ولا يلحقه كسل ، قال تعالى : ( وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا فِي سِتَّةِ أَيَّامٍ وَمَا مَسَّنَا مِنْ لُغُوبٍ ) (قّ:38) هذه السماوات العظيمة والأرض وما بينهما خلقها الله تعالى في ستة أيام : الأحد والاثنين والثلاثاء والأربعاء والخميس والجمعة ، قال (وَمَا مَسَّنَا مِنْ لُغُوبٍ ) يعني ما تعبنا بخلقها في هذه المدة الوجيزة مع عظمها

                      Source

                      Rough translation:

                      “This malal [literally: boredom], which is understood as an attribute of Allah from the literal/apparent meaning of the narration, is not like our boredom, for our boredom constitutes of tiredness and laziness. As for the boredom of Allah, the Powerful and Exalted, then that is a special Attribute of the Most Powerful and High, and Allah (swt) is neither ascribed with tiredness nor laziness…..”

                        #12faqir

                        • Marifah
                        • 3,334 posts
                        • Location:englaaaand

                        Posted 07 August 2011 – 11:08 PM

                        Salafis Say Allah is Attributed with Hesitation: ‘A conflict between Two Wills’

                        ‘Shaikh’ Abdel Aziz Ar-Rajhi said:

                        الأسئلة:
                        س: أحسن الله إليكم هل يوصف الله بالتردد كما في الحديث القدسي (وما ترددت في شيء أنا فاعله ترددي في قبض نفس عبدي المؤمن�) الحديث؟

                        ج: نعم كما وصفه الرسول -عليه الصلاة والسلام- لكن هذا التردد ليس كتردد المخلوق الذي يدل على الضعف، ولكنه تعارض الإرادتين كما بين في الحديث، فالله تعالى يريد ما يريده عبده المؤمن، والمؤمن يكره الموت، فالله يريد ما يريده عبده المؤمن، ولكن الله قضى وقدر أنه يموت، فهذا تعارض إرادتين إرادة الموت؛ لأن الله قدره، وإرادة ما يريده العبد وهو كراهة الموت ولا ينافي هذا التردد ترجيح إحدى الإرادتين؛ لأن الموت لا بد منه نعم.
                        Source

                        “Question: ‘Is Allah (swt) attributed with Hesitation (taraddud)……?’

                        Answer (tr. Um Abdullah / NMS/ Musleemah): Yes, as the Messenger -Alayhi As-Salatu Wa-Salam- described Him, but this taraddud (hesitation) isn’t like the hesitation of creation that indicates weakness, but it is a conflict between two wills as the hadith explains. Allah Ta’ala wants what the believing slave wants, and the believer does not like death, so Allah wants what His believing slave wants, but Allah Has decreed that He die, so this is a conflict between two wills, the will for him to die, because Allah decreed it, and the will of what the slave wants, which is hating death, and this hesitation does not go against the outweighting of one will over the other, because death is a must.

                          #13faqir

                          • Marifah
                          • 3,334 posts
                          • Location:englaaaand

                          Posted 07 August 2011 – 11:09 PM

                          Salafis say Allah is Settled on the Throne

                          Says ‘Shaykh’ Ibn Uthaimeen:

                          Quote

                          ونحن نعلم معنى الاستواء ونؤمن به ونقره وهو أنه سبحانه وتعالى علا عرشه واستوى عليه علوا واستقرارا يليق به سبحانه وتعالى ولكننا لا نعلم كيفية هذا الاستواء
                          Source

                          rough translation:

                          We know the meaning of istawa and we believe it and accept/approve it and He subhanahu wa ta’ala is upon is His arsh and His establishment thereupon is of aboveness and settledness (istiqrar) Glorified and Exalted be He. We don’t know the howness of this al-istawa’.

                          Useful Anecdote:

                          Salafi Hadith scholar Al-Albani refutes this belief in settlement saying :

                          “It is not permissible to describe Allah as being settled, because first of all, settlement is a human attribute. Secondly, our Lord, Exalted and Majestic is He, was not described with it that we say ‘it is a settlement that befits His majesty and perfection,’ as we say with regards to istiwa’; so we do not describe Allah with anything save what He has described Himself with, which is then juxtaposed with the revelation: ‘There is nothing like unto Him, and He is All-Hearing, All-Seeing'”

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                            #14faqir

                            • Marifah
                            • 3,334 posts
                            • Location:englaaaand

                            Posted 07 August 2011 – 11:10 PM

                            Pseudo Salafis Say God Has the Attribute of Silence

                            Pseudo Salafi theologian ‘shaykh’ ‘Alawi al-Saqqaf said:

                            قال الشيخ الفاضل علوي السقاف في ” صفات الله عز وجل ” ( ص 177 ) : يوصف ربنا عَزَّ وجَلَّ بالسُّكوت كما يليق به سبحانه ، لَيْسَ كَمِثْلِهِ شَيْءٌ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ البَصِيرُ.وهذا ثابتٌ بالسنة الصحيحة ، وهي صفةٌ فعليَّةٌ اختيارية متعلقة بمشيئته سبحانه وتعالى

                            Rough translation….

                            ‘Our Lord, Mighty and Majestic, bears the Attribute of Silence in a way that befits Him, and there is nothing like unto Him. He is The All-Hearing, The All-Seeing. This is established in the authentic Sunnah and it is a voluntary attribute of action that is attached to His Will, Glorified and Exalted is He….

                            [‘Alawi Al-Saqqaaf, ‘The Attributes of Allah, Mighty and Majestic’ (p.177)]

                            The book is available at this link.

                            ……………………………..
                            There is a book called Al Tabsir Fi Ma’aalim Al Deen which the salafis say is by Imam al-Tabari.  In there is a related quote which the Salafi editor (a prominent Salafi theologian) Dr. Ali ibn Abd al-Aziz al-Shibl objected to:

                            Posted Image

                            In the above Imam al-Tabari is saying “He’s the speaker (al-Mutakallim) upon whom silence is not allowed (i.e. It is negated).”

                            The salafi editor of this work writes that this position is similar to “what the Asharis say regarding Kalam Nafsi” and continues to reject Imam Tabari’s words saying, “It is not allowed to negate silence (sukut)…..”

                              #15Abul Hasan

                              • Scholars
                              • 286 posts
                              • Gender:Brother

                              Posted 01 September 2011 – 03:53 PM

                              Mashallah! Keep them coming…
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